Children are notoriously picky eaters. Could they be trying to tell us (adults) something? Such as how bad our diet is?
Alex Combs, a stay-at-home dad and equity trader who lives near Philadelphia, has a five-year-old son whom Alex describes as “a picky eater.”
His son will not eat rice, potatoes, and pasta. He will eat small amounts of meat.
Yet his son will eat pickles, balsamic vinegar, and old/stinky cheese (but not regular cheese).
This is a fair description of what I eat! No simple carbs, some meat, plenty of fermented foods. While lots of people advocate low-carb diets, only a few, including me, advocate large amounts of fermented food. His son’s counter-intuitive liking for such gourmet “adult” foods as pickles, balsamic vinegar, and old cheeses, all high in bacteria, puts the picky eating of children in a whole new light. They’re not picky — they’re smart.
Have you ever considered adding red wine to your list of fermented foods? Wine undergoes multiple fermentations, primary and secondary, with different bacteria. Some of the products of fermentations are left behind (fining or gravity settling, with racking off of the wine) but some remain in the wine as bottled and shipped. There have always been anecdotes about the healthy qualities of drinking wine, in individuals and in populations.
This kid seems like an outlier to me. As a father of a two year old, my observation is that kids like sugar, fruit, crackers, pasta, cereal, white bread, white rice. The simpler the carbs the better. Lots of bland food. I don’t see kids eating lots of stinky cheese, saurkraut, kim chee etc. I think many of their of their preferences are maladaptive in a modern environment. I’m not around that many kids though, so I’m interested in what others see.
My son will only eat peanut butter and raspberry jam sandwiches, broccoli, tofu, and box mac-and-cheese. What was your point again?
His son’s counter-intuitive liking for such gourmet “adult” foods as pickles, balsamic vinegar, and old cheeses, all high in bacteria,
@Seth
One, your fundamental assumption that fermented foods are high in bacteria, living or dead, is very, very much to open to debate. In fact, my guess is that, in general, fermented foods are low in bacteria — precisely because they are fermented. We use micro-organisms to kill off/out-compete bacteria to make foods safer for us to eat. We use fermentation to preserve(!) foods like vinegar, pickles, stinky cheese FROM bacteria, ergo spoilage.
Two, assuming that your assumption above IS correct: fermented foods are high in bacteria – it is still very much questionable if bacteria from these fermented foods are beneficial to our health.
Three, you have no mechanism to explain the second assumption.
While I like and appreciate your intellectual creativity (I read this blog and frequently comment) —- you exhibit a certain amount intellectual sloppiness that does not behoove you.
And you continue duck me here:
https://sethroberts.org/2009/04/05/fermented-good-antibiotic-bad/#comment-288257
puts the picky eating of children in a whole new light. They’re not picky — they’re smart.
Suffice to say, that child above is very atypical of 5 year-olds. Most children at that age prefer much more bland foods.
Which might be an evolutionary adaptation for avoiding natural toxins (strong-tasting foods) that young, developing nervous systems can’t handle.
To illustrate my point above — beer, one of the earliest fermented foods, is designed to kill bacteria.
https://www.beer-brewing.com/beer-brewing/beer_spoilage_organisms/bacteria.htm
Beer is a poor and rather hostile environment for most microorganisms. Its ethanol concentration and low pH is lower than most bacteria can tolerate for growth. Furthermore, the high carbon dioxide concentration and extremely low oxygen content makes beer a near to anaerobic medium. Beer also contains bitter hop compounds, which are toxic. Only a few bacteria are able to grow under such inhospitable conditions and are able to spoil beer. These bacteria include both Gram-positive and Gram-negative species as listed in Table 19.2.
Gram Positive Bacteria
Gram-positive bacteria are generally regarded as the most threatening contaminants in the brewery because of their rapid growth rate and tolerance to high temperatures and low pH conditions. Most hazardous microorganisms are those belonging to the genera Lactobacillus and Pediococcus and are often referred to as lactic acid bacteria because of their propensity to produce lactic acid from simple sugars.
Gram Negative Bacteria
Important Gram-negative contaminants in the context of beer brewing are acetic acid bacteria, Zymomonas spp., Pectinatus spp., and various Enterobacteriaceae. Several members of this group not only distort the fermentation process or produce undesired by-products but also have been reported to survive the fermentation process and to transfer into the finished product.
I’ve been told — no idea if it’s true — that kids are picky eaters because more of their taste buds are intact and thus they have a more discriminating taste. As you age you burn taste buds.
I think it’s an interesting idea. It makes a lot of sense that we would evolve to find anti-nutrients repulsive. (I remember being forced to sit at the dinner table until I had finished my lima beans, because they were supposed to be so healthful. Now we know that they’re crammed with phytic acid and lectins, making it difficult for us to absorb nutrients from other foods we ingest.)
My 4 year-old is the opposite, of course. Just bread and rice and oatmeal every day.
Recently he’s been eating some meat, turkey bacon and canned sardines.
@Andrew Gelman
I agree. Like I said above, Seth very admirably demonstrates a great amount of intellectual creativity, but which comes at the not insignificant price of intellectual sloppiness i.e. the painfully obvious confirmation bias manifesting itself in the post above. Ironic given Seth’s statistical training.
My daughter also will only eat simple or refined carbs, pasta, white bread, rice, chocolate, candy, crackers, and candy. I’ve been somewhat successful in getting her to eat eggs, meatballs, and yogurt, but it takes a lot of effort. From what I see among all of the other kids at her daycare, her preferences are the norm.
Seth that kid you discuss in your post is a huge outlier.
https://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2009/03/reversing-tooth-decay.html by reducing grains and increasing Vit D, calcium and phytase. The next post notes fermenting brown rice increases phytase. The other entries seem interesting as well.
Seth,
In addition to the confirmation bias that Patrick and Dr. Gelman talk about, it’s very clear that you are very, very quick to generalize your results to the broader population. Your results may be far less applicable outside your own body than you think.
You do provoke me to think though. And for that I’m grateful. .
Oh, and Alex Comb probably needs to think about getting his son tested for Zinc deficiency. Low Zinc status impacts the ability to taste and smell well, resulting in the individual preferring highly flavorful, spicy food to cross the threshold.
I’d do that first before getting excited about him being a sample in a new theory about fermented foods. Though his son is probably perfectly fine.
1 kid = anecdote
1 anecdote =/= data
anecdote =/= data? Treating the world as black and white (data = good, anecdote = bad) doesn’t make it so.
What some of you fundamentalists are calling “intellectual sloppiness” seems to me to be more like committed curiousity. I would argue that while a more rigorous approach is appropriate for, say, making public policy, Seth ain’t doing that. I’m thinking you aren’t getting the point of self-experimentation.