At a dinner for foreign teachers at Tsinghua, I met a Canadian woman who teaches English literature. Soon after she moved to China, she started having nightmares every night. For dreams, they were unusually linear and realistic. They were nightmares in the sense that they felt “sinister”. This hadn’t happened to her before. It was especially puzzling because she was having a good time.
On a forum for foreigners in Beijing, she asked what might be causing the problem. MSG, she was told. All Chinese restaurants use MSG. She started cooking her own food. The problem went away. Whenever she ate a restaurant meal, the problem returned. The time between meal and sleep made a difference. The dreams would be more vivid if she slept soon after the meal.
Here is a discussion of the MSG/nightmare link with many stories about it. I believe we like the taste of MSG because glutamate is created when proteins are digested by bacteria. We like glutamate because we need to eat bacteria to be healthy. Bacteria are too big and varied to detect directly; it’s much easier to evolve a glutamate detector. The problem is that now you can have glutamate in your food without bacteria. Apparently cooked tomatoes and garlic are other sources.
With PubMed I found two relevant articles. One reported an experiment where hyperactive boys got better when additives, including MSG, were removed from their food. The other is a review article about the effects of MSG that mentions sleep.
I’m sure from the personal stories that MSG causes nightmares — and therefore probably also causes other problems. (That glutamate is a neurotransmitter makes the MSG-nightmare link even more likely.) Here are researchers from the Scripps Clinic in San Diego saying MSG is safe:
Since the first description of the ‘Monosodium glutamate symptom complex’, originally described in 1968 as the ‘Chinese restaurant syndrome’, a number of anecdotal reports and small clinical studies of variable quality have attributed a variety of symptoms to the dietary ingestion of MSG. . . . Despite concerns raised by early reports, decades of research [this review was published in 2009] have failed to demonstrate a clear and consistent relationship between MSG ingestion and the development of these conditions..
What the woman I met did in a week or so (establish that MSG has bad effects), medical researchers — at least, judging by this review — have failed to do in 41 years (“decades of research”). Just as dermatologists have been unable to figure out that acne is caused by diet.
Joseph Campbell, author of “The Hero With A Thousand Faces,” as well as of the PBS television series on cross-cultural mythologies, gave us two now popular concepts, i.e. “The hero’s journey,” (which inspired George Lucas), and “Follow your bliss” (which could have inspired everyone).
But what he said which has always stuck in my mind is this: “Dreams are the warring of the internal organs.” Unfortunately, that’s about all I recall him saying on this, and there’s little online to amplify it.
This appeals to me because it connects body and mind. One “concrete,” the other “abstract.”
Personal experience suggests some examples: Dreams of fire as nothing more complicated than thirst. Dreams of searching for a functioning bathroom as an expression of that need. Spicey food seems to intensify dreaming. And I’ve watched enough police chases and gang documentaries on TV to have a greater appreciation for the effect of drugs on brain functioning, thus behavior.
I wonder if traditional Chinese medicine, with its intimate, more global understanding of the relationship of organs, meridians, energy, etc. can make more sense of what Campbell was saying. In any case, I’d enjoy reflections from others here on the same subject. Maybe we can simplify the whole business of dream interpretation. Might it be nothing more complicated than the narrative, time-binding “left brain” transforming present bodily chemistry into a story?
Patricia Garfield’s Pathways to Ecstacy is an account of long observation and thought about dreams, with the conclusion that dreams are reactions to bodily changes.
Not related to your post, but more self-experimentation: Olivier Arneisen’s The End of My Addiction by a cardiologist who became an alcoholic and eventually discovered that baclofen (a muscle relaxant) completely eliminated his craving for alcohol. Unfortunately, so far, no one has been willing to do the tests necessary to make sure that the relatively high dosages he needed have a reliable effect for other people.
More self-experimentation: Bob Cooley’s The Genius of Flexibility. He discovered when trying to rehab after serious injuries that resisting while stretching (a sort of moving isometric) improves flexibility rapidly (I’ve had a little experience with this working) and strength, and has good effects on the personality. The comments at amazon show that this system works for a lot of people.
What the woman I met did in a week or so (establish that MSG has bad effects), medical researchers — at least, judging by this review — have failed to do in 41 years (â€decades of researchâ€). Just as dermatologists have been unable to figure out that acne is caused by diet.
this is really bizarre phrasing. the medical researchers havent ‘failed’ any more than your woman has succeeded, they have two different results, and there is seemingly no reason to prefer the woman’s result over the researchers results–the other way around perhaps.
in the future i guess i’ll just tell anyone who disagrees with me that they are ‘failing to be correct’ lol
Eric, the woman determined that MSG is dangerous, the researchers failed to figure this out. That was the broad goal of their research, to determine if MSG was safe or not.
err no she didn’t determine it was dangerous any more than they determined it was safe, i.e. she could be wrong about what’s causing her nightmares, just like the researchers could be wrong that MSG is safe?
I avoid MSG, figuring better safe than sorry, though I’ve never noticed a problem on the occasions when I think I’ve eaten it. (At some restaurants I’m not sure). But, Seth, the abstract of that paper that you cite doesn’t say anything about nightmares or about health impacts in general, it looks only at “asthmatic bronchospasm, urticaria, angio-oedema, and rhinitis.” Maybe you read the whole article, but at least the abstract doesn’t contradict the nightmare connection. If the woman said her nose ran if (and only if) she ate at a Chinese restaurant, then you’d have found a disagreement!
Phil, yes, the abstract doesn’t mention niightmares. But the whole point of the article is to say “as far as we know, MSG is safe.” Suppose I wrote an article claiming that arsenic doesn’t cause “asthmatic bronchospasm, urticaria, angio-oedema, and rhinitis.” (“In spite of decades of research . . . “) It would be literally true but also a joke — because we know arsenic is dangerous. The articles in which dermatologists claim that diet doesn’t cause acne (using phrases like “there is no strong evidence that…”) are literally true but a joke since a lot of the rest of us have managed to figure out that diet does cause acne.
Eric, she totally got rid of her nightmares. And she can predict when they will return (when she is forced to eat food with MSG). This is a lot better than those researchers can do. Based on their review, they haven’t gotten rid of any real problem nor made any accurate predictions.
I just had the worst nightmare of my life. I was very scared when I woke up this morning. I remember I had Chinese food yesterday at a restaurant. I am never going to eat food that has msg. Good thing the link between nightmares and msg is in this blog. I also noticed that msg gives me anxiety, too. Yesterday I was anxious. I hardly ever am anymore, with all my coping skills, but yesterday I was scared.
I have always found that I have headaches, flushing and severely vivid nightmares after consuming large amounts of MSG. In fact, even without the headache or flushing, I can always tell a food had too much MSG after a long night of nightmares. I think it has something to do with with sensitivity to certain amino acids such as MSG. I once took an amino acid supplement and the after-effects were horrendous. I can’t eat most chips, certain Chinese food nor the McD’s sausage patties due to my reaction. Although I think there has to be a high level for me to have a reaction.
I have been suffering for years with benzodiazepene tolerance withdrawal including severe irrational phobias, terror and nightmares. Once I found out that the anxiety meds were CAUSING anxiety I switched over to Valium (longer half-life and active metabolites as opposed to ativan). I also quit drinking coffee. After a month off of coffee my problems were reduced almost to the point of being gone. Benzo withdrawal symptoms have something to do with inversion of the GABA receptors in the brain, but they also stimulate GLUTAMATE receptors. Apparently coffee stimulates glutamate production somehow. It was explained to me that the GABA receptors are like brakes on the brain and anxiety, while glutamate is like the gas pedal for staying awake and anxiety sypmtoms like nightmares. After two months away from coffee I was feeling pretty happy (although still using a small amount of valium daily) and starting to take lithium over the counter (which suppresses glutamates) I had one 25 cent cup of coffee after church with my pastry and suffered with horrible anxiety and nightmares for nearly a week. Being a coffee addict, I tried the post-church coffee and suffered again. Finally, this week on a fishing trip to the mountains and a nice bacon and eggs breakfast at my sister’s cabin, I drank a large cup of coffee. Within 24 hours, SEVERE anxiety and two nights worth of nightmares so far. Which is why I am online researching glutamates and anxiety and found this discussion. There is a definite link between coffee, glutamates and nightmares/anxiety. I am typing this at 3:49 am after a terrible nightmare and I am afraid to go back to sleep. I do have schizoaffective bipolar disorder but the lithium was making the “vivid dreams” tolerable. I also take Ritalin for excessive daytime sleepiness due to severe sleep apnea. So the nightmares are more complicated than just coffee and ARE related to activity in the body. But after 3 strikes of glutamate-stimulating coffee, it’s OUT. No more for me until I get fully tapered off the valium. Oh yeah, and for some reason eating chicken parmesan made me anxious until I read that cooked tomatoes are full of natural glutamates. Glutamates are a stimulating neurotransmitter. There is scientific evidence of that. Proof enough for me. I’m not sure I would try coffee even after I’m off the valium, the anxiety is that bad and the nightmares are intolerable. I will just be getting over this bout of anxiety on Sunday when I am going back to church after the fishing trip. I just have to avoid that lovely pot with the 25 cent sign on it and drink bottled water or Coke (Coke and hot tea don’t seem to bother me as much, but diet soda definitely gives me anxiety attacks)